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Why Don't We Hate These Guys?

Game 9: Mavericks 105, Spurs 92

I'm upset. No in fact, I'm fucking pissed. I know I shouldn't be. It's only November 15 and it's stupid for me to expect us to be running on all cylinders at this point. Hell, what makes us so good in the first place is that we don't blow our load early like some teams. My brain tells me that not only should I have expected this loss but that I should quickly move on from it, knowing that the club will be better for the experience. My heart though tells me I fucking hate the Mavs, hate every single little thing about them, and there is no such thing a silver lining losing to them, under any circumstances. In short I am in a rotten mood today and I will not waste my time or yours dressing up this here post with bright pictures and witty comments. It's gonna be pretty short and straight to the point.

Simply put, it was obvious at the outset that they wanted it more. We chipped away at them for a moment here, a moment there, but their effort and desire was more than consistent enough to get it done tonight. I'm not going even going to make excuses or blame the refs or anything. The more aggressive, physical team got the benefit of the doubt of the calls and we didn't even have it in us to knock one of their guys on their ass just to let them know we were there. We were soft and mentally weak and we spent way too much time barking at the zebras and looking to them for help, a nasty stereotype that haters have about us that was only reinforced tonight, to my regret.  

Blame? There's plenty of blame to go around, but it's not going to go in the direction you're all thinking.

I've got nothing bad to say about Tony at all.

What am I supposed to be upset with him about? It's not like the guy didn't try. It's not like he missed shots on purpose. He took the shots he usually takes and just had a miserable night, that's it. At the end of the day he's our starting point guard and he had eight assists and one turnover. For me to rail on him now for having a horrible scoring night but a good floor game night when usually I'm ranting out of my mind for him to pass the ball more and shoot less, well it would make me a hypocrite. If I'm going to pick on him for anything it'd be his lackadaisical defense, but really, every Spur who took the floor tonight was plainly guilty of being crap in their own end.

Actually, Tony is being put in a tough spot this year, more than ever. Manu, the team's most consistent and efficient scorer thus far, starts on the bench. Bruce isn't much of a scoring option and neither is Fab. For the team to get off to a good start in the first and third quarters of games, it is critical for both Parker and Duncan to score. So for all my wailing about Tony's ballhoggery, it has become apparent, even to me that the team as presently constructed needs him to be selfish and looking for his shot early. And when he has an unfortunate start like he did tonight, going 0-5 before the first time out, well, odds are we'll be in a hole quickly. Unless something changes quickly, the going will only get tougher for Tony and early deficits will be a common occurrence for our Spurs.

In short, Michael Finley is killing us.

Take a look at this. This chart shows all of our five man combinations used so far this year. You'll notice that the starting quintet Parker-Finley-Bowen-Duncan-Oberto has the third best +/- of all our lineups, at +11. So what's the problem you ask? Well, that unit has played far more together than any other we've used so far. They've logged 78 minutes on the court together, the next most common lineup Parker-Ginobili-Bowen-Duncan-Elson, has logged 34.

No, the real indicator of the problem is the +/- per minute stat. Our starting line-up is a very ordinary +.140 per minute, meaning that for every 10 minutes of floor time together they're going to outscore their counterparts by a mere 1.4 points. This figure is a worse total (in most cases obscenely worse) than any of our 40 most common lineups.

While it'd be simple to write off tonight's 0-6 game as a fluke, no more and no less than Tony's, I'm afraid it's not that simple in Findog's case. The guy is shooting 32% from the field and 24% from three. Not only has he been abjectly terrible, but he's been painfully consistent about it. Consider that the 7 for 12 showing against the Bucks a couple of games back wasn't only Fin's only +50% game so far, but it also happened to be his only +40% game as well.  He's doesn't  himself out at the line either as he's only had six attempts from the charity stripe all season. And as for "non-scoring contributions" Fin still hasn't broken the tie with you or I as far as how many offensive rebounds or blocked shots he's had on the season. More and more teams are starting to take advantage of him at both ends of the floor and it's hurting us.

Truthfully, I don't know what the solution is. Putting Manu back in the starting line-up ruins our bench and likely leaves him twiddling his thumbs for the first six minutes of the game. Replacing Fin's role with Brent is an option, but it also weakens the bench as we found out last year that teams exploit that match-up by trapping Manu, making him give the ball up quickly to one of four guys who can't dribble or create their own shot. Playing Brent with Manu works better because he's a more respected 3 point shooter and ball handler/playmaker than Fin.

But what else is there? Udoka? You know how I feel about playing Bowen and Udoka together. Besides, he hasn't shown a whole lot yet except for his debut game and I'm not comfortable with him at all.

Here's a wacky idea, probably something we'll never see but one I urge you to think about nonetheless. Why not, at least against teams that feature only one major perimeter scoring threat, start Bonner at small forward and shift Bowen over to shooting guard?

I'm not crazy.

Bowen is basically a de facto two guard anyway. That's who he usually guards and he certainly rebounds (or doesn't) like a guard. Against bigger teams with small forwards who aren't a big part of their offense (like Houston for example) I think we could get by with Bonner at the three spot for a few minutes. At this point in his career he can't do ANYTHING worse than Finley except make free throws. And he'd certainly help our rebounding and interior defense playing with two other bigs. I'd certainly rather see Parker kick it out to him for a jumper than Finley, that's for sure.

Like I said, it's probably a dumb idea and something Pop would never seriously consider. Then the only solution is to simply demand Finley to play better, to play like someone who still deserves a rotation spot let alone a starting job. It was disappointing to no end to see him come out so flat against his former team. You'd think he'd be more geeked about sticking it to them than anyone.

Also, speaking of disappointment, I must say I feel quite let down by the team's two main leaders, Tim and Pop. Duncan once again started with no fire in his belly but quite a bit of lead in his feet. I realize that getting kicked in the gonads by The Big Bug early on couldn't have felt too good, but Duncan appeared ground-bound all night, was terrible defensively and was quite careless with the ball. Also, he had another terrible night on the glass. Is he injured? Did his plantar fasciitis rear its ugly head again? One would think that he'd want to really assert himself in this one since the last time he was in this building it was the infamous Joey Crawford game but he really wasn't into it at all until much too late.

As for Pop, he might love early season losses for their ability to provide teaching and motivational tools, but he's got to realize that losing to the Mavericks is not the same as losing to say, the Memphis Grizzlies. Like it or not, no matter how skewed the refereeing was that series, and no matter how many times he wants to lay the totality of the series on Manu's one dumb foul, the Mavericks are the last team to have beaten us in a playoff series and they're very aware of it. Don't forget, they got the better of us three out of four games last year too. At this point we have to concede that not only are they confident and not intimidated by us, but they have the psychological edge on us as well. They're in our heads.

This was not a simple, "Oh well, it's only November" game, Pop. It was up to you to make that clear to the guys and clearly you failed. Only two or three of your players looked like they gave a shit and the team as a whole looked listless and unprepared. Oberto cannot guard Dirk (tonight might have been a good day to start Frankie) and not enough emphasis was put into getting the ball inside to Tim early and often. Instead of targeting Dirk, their worst defender, we went after Harris who's likely their best. Trusting Tony to handle the early scoring load when he historically has struggled more against this team than any other was foolish, and you brought Barry into the game much too late and for far too few minutes. Mainly you saw your guys get knocked down and beat up time after time but you never instilled in them the importance of fighting back. The Mavs are a very fragile, volatile bunch with Dirk, Howard, Stack, Terry and Harris and the one time we beat these guys last year was when Bruce got into Howard's head. We need to be the instigators against these guys the way the Warriors were and need to quit playing Jesus ball against them.

Hopefully coach is right and this loss will serve a purpose for the future, but we will have to wait a bit to find out. Personally I fear that Pop's continuing friendship with Avery is hurting us in this rivalry and for us to ever get over on these guys he's going to have to be a little more ruthless and cutthroat about things. A part of me feels like Avery is using their friendship to his advantage, getting more from Pop than the other way around like a true manipulative opportunist he is. I get the sense that while the L'il General respects Pop, a guy like Bill Belichick is his true coaching role model, and the way he still had his starters out there after we'd long waved the white flag is only further proof of that. I don't think we're going to be able to beat these guys until our coach despises them as much as we do.

Your 3 Stars (such as they were)

3. Jacque Vaughn - Knocked down one of two jumpers and was a team best +8 in his season debut. I would have preferred for Washington, who has a good rhythm going on his jumper as well as the ability to attack the basket, to get the nod, but Vaughn certainly had nothing to do with the loss.

2. Brent Barry - Triumphant in his return from an ankle injury, Brent buried all four of his shots, three from downtown and briefly sparked a comeback bid in the 3rd quarter. A couple more games like this and he might be back in the starting lineup, and that worries me.

1. Manu Ginobili - If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times - while I'm the biggest Manu fan on the planet, it's not the recipe for a successful season for him to be our best player. We desperately need Tim to pick it up or else Opus will be worn down to a nub by February. He is plainly having to play too hard right now and you can already see it affecting him as he had that wrap on his left leg tonight and hasn't looked very explosive at all the past couple of games. 25-9-7 is a sensational line, but he had three early turnovers as well that helped to put us in a big hole and gambled far too much on defense.

Record: 7-2
Up Next: Vs. Houston Rockets
A perfect time for round two against the other contender from Texas who kicked our ass. Unfortunately it won't be a true test as (SHOCKING!) McGrady has suffered an injury and will be out for the game. We'll probably win -we'd better- but what will it mean?

0 recs | Comment 21 comments

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Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?
What kind of fog is Timbo in? He is rountenly getting his shot blocked and turning the ball over like a chump. Disgraceful. He should be feasting on the Mavs stiffs in the post, which he did in the second half, but it was way too late. Every time I see Tim setting up near the free throw line, I cringe. The guy should be putting his defender in a vice on the low block. Oh, and a little tip for finishing at the rim, go straight at the rim and dunk it, that way, you don't have human-goose hybrids like Inertwisky blocking your shot.

Your right, Fin Fin is completely done. I like how he was so lazy that he didn't even dive to the floor for the lose ball at his feet in the first half. Was Pop watching him during pre-season at all? I thought we had been over this before (remember when Pop used to have defensive ace Terry Porter guarding Kobe?) and promised to have somebody that didn't have cement shoes and 80 years old at the most atheltic position on the floor. GET HIM OUT OF THE LINE UP NOW!

Although I did just rap old man river Porter, does anyone recall when he knocked Dirts tooth out? I would love to see more of that, uh check that, any of that type of aggression against the Mavs. This is the f*cking Mavs we are talking about. Cuban, traitor Avery, thugs and bugs. I mean, come on, we should be going Tully Blanchard on these fungus faces. Somebody wake Tim the F up and everyone else start showing some brass.

-Hannibal ad portas (Hannibal is at the gate!)

by ClintonsCigar on Nov 16, 2007 8:14 AM CST   0 recs

Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?
the good/bad thing about the spurs is their reliability.  you know when they are going to win and you know when they are going to lose.  last night, they played as if they knew it ahead of time too.

a lot of people will make a big deal out of how bad dallas just beat us. i'll be more worried if they blow us out of meaningful games in february/march when we play them. they wanted it more and they won it.  

some other thoughts:

after watching last night, i too wonder if something is wrong with tim.  for short stretches he has been the same stellar tim.  that said, too often he has been a plodder that keeps getting his shot thrown.  that crap with kobe the other night was about as bad as this performance against dallas. but dont forget about that twisting one handed gino-stlye finger roller he put in too.  that was pretty sweet.

i want ginobili in the starting line-up.  no reason for him not to be out there. these are the champs we're talking about, one of those guys on the bench would have to step up in that situation.

i agree with you guys on fin starting off poorly, but he did that last year before rounding into shape. i'm sticking with him for a while longer, but not as a starter.

elson on nowitski for sure.  i thought that was one of the reasons we signed him - he's a more athletic big guy.

by bones on Nov 16, 2007 9:38 AM CST   0 recs

Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?
Let's not overreact here. We're 7-2, not 2-7. I live in Dallas and I have to put up with this Mavs Mania shit all day, everyday. I just remind myself, and Mavs fans, of the new slogan "67 & Bitch"... 67 Wins and then Bitch out of the playoffs. Manu is doing an amazing job off the bench. Inserting him back into the starting line up is not the solution. We have to bring our "A" game when we play the Mavs and I'm sure we can all agree that last night we played at a C+ level... at best. In all honesty, Tony's 1-11 performance last night did us in. We need Tony to hit those outside shots to open it up for Tim on the inside. It was just one of those nights when the shots aren't falling.... It happens. Ask yourself how Dallas would have looked last night if J-Hoe, JET or Dirk shot an abysmal 1-11? The Mavs on the other hand brought their "A" game, they shot 52% from the field, shot better from behind the arc and flat out wanted it more than we did. As much as it hurt to watch the Mavs win last night, just think how they were feeling when we raised our 4th Championship banner this year. I love going to Mavs games just to look up and see their lone "Western Conference Champions" banner. It's something that every Spurs fan should see.

by CMoney on Nov 16, 2007 11:47 AM CST   0 recs

Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?
I don't know what to do, either - that's Pop's job, anyway - but Finley simply has to be benched. I imagine someone already asked him to step it up, and I bet he's trying on his own, but obviously it's not happening.

I want to be wrong, but if he can't shoot, what else is he good for?

Bonner in the starting five... I don't know. I don't like Bonner - he's inconsistent. He could get some much-needed rebounds, but his shooting stroke gives me the shivers.

About Parker, you said that you couldn't fault him for having a bad shooting night when for once he dished out assists. I disagree - he's built himself as a scorer. He's the one that's always taking the shots - and since he doesn't play all that much D, I'll have to judge him for his ability to score. The Spurs need those points of his to win, because their system is based on the way he regularly plays.

When he makes 1 out of 11 shots, he's had a bad night and hasn't played well, period. I don't mean to demonize him - any player is allowed a rough night every so often. Especially someone that's given us as much as Tony.

Just want to make it clear that to me, this was a bad night, not a he-didn't-shoot-well-but-at-least-he-distributed-the-ball night.

Anyway, there's time to try different things, and we shouldn't have any problems with most of the teams in the NBA. Still, we really need to find options to Finley if he continues playing so bad.

Thanks for the review, Aaron. It was very enjoyable, as always.

by LatinD on Nov 16, 2007 11:57 AM CST   0 recs

Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?
We need Manu to come off the bench because he is then the first scoring option. If he starts all he will do is  stand around out there while they throw the ball into Duncan or let Parker do his thing. And if Manu Starts are bench will be horrible!!!!

I like the idea of starting Bonner...if he is on the floor with Tony and Duncan he cant try to do stupid things like dribble. He will space the floor for Tim and he can make the open 3.

The only thing with  Bonner is when is on the floor with  the second unit and makes a couple of 3's he tries to do to much,  like shoot off the dribble or take his man to the hole and he can't do any of that.

We also really need Horry back. Horry with Manu and Barry would a great second unit.

Finley needs to be benched right now... all he does is shoot and he isn't even shooting well. He can't defend, he can't dribble and he sure as hell doesn't like to pass..I hate pop giving the green light!!!!

Your right Pop needs to start making adjustments or we will be fucked if we play Dallas.

by adam8065 on Nov 16, 2007 12:03 PM CST   0 recs

Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?
There isn't any need to overreact and Tim will be alright, but it's obvious the end is near. I know he signed that extension, but I can't see him playing past next season. And I'm not sure he will be very effective if he does, but I digress. He needs to play better, but I am certain a future Hall of Famer like himself realizes that. I mean it's like we are talking about Benoit Benjamin here. That was Pussy Game #2 of the season and it came at an inopportune time because I hate the Mavs, but Dallas wanted it more and I grudingly give them credit for that. I still say someone should have knocked Devin Harris on his ass, but it's all good, we'll see these guys again real soon.
"The road to success is always under construction."

by DennardC on Nov 16, 2007 12:32 PM CST   0 recs

Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?
Wow, that's some statement. You really don't see Tim playing past next season? Really?

He's not playing on all cylinders right now, but even so he's still one of the best power forwards/centers in the league. Even his stats, depleted as they are, say so.

I think you're jumping the gun here, DennardC. Even when Duncan finally stops dominating the game, he'll have many years of good basketball left, like the Admiral before him.

by LatinD on Nov 16, 2007 12:54 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?

I also think we should definitely enjoy Manu this year because this Summer he will playing in the Olympics  and we know what that does to his body and probably Oberto's too..also he will be one year older!

by adam8065 on Nov 16, 2007 12:54 PM CST   0 recs

Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?
Just my opinion. I could be wrong, but think about it, why would Tim play 14/15 seasons? What more will he have to prove? I don't think he has anything to prove now. Really the only thing he hasn't accomplished is a back to back championship. I haven't read anywhere that this is a prerequisite in a great career. So I don't see him playing until his is 35 or 36, and I am not saying Tim won't be effective if he does play that long, but I just know the clock is ticking and if you include his playoff games, Tim has already played nearly the equivalent of 12 seasons. That's a lot of mileage, and if you hypothetically add another long postseason run this season, and you are inching closer to 14 years. I'm just saying. I know you hear some NBA analysts saying, "Well his game is based on fundamentals, so he really won't lose anything," but Father Time is the toughest opponent in NBA history, and it's undefeated. I'm just saying.
"The road to success is always under construction."

by DennardC on Nov 16, 2007 1:30 PM CST   0 recs

Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?
I think those analysts mean that Duncan's game won't suffer as much as, say, Shaq's does. Because you don't need a 40-ft vertical to hit that shot off the glass that he loves to make, and he's never based his game on dunks or high-power moves.

Still, age will hurt him at some point - that's unavoidable. But last year's playoffs showed that Tim was still dominant in his position, and I think he'll be so for a few more years.

by LatinD on Nov 16, 2007 3:05 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?
Several points: 1. If TP has just an average night, we're in the ballgame. And yes, everyone has a bad night. 2. I think Dallas gets in Fin's head. Sure he's sucked in almost every game this season, but I think he'll break out of his shooting slump. But against the Mavs, I don't think he ever will. He WANTS to do so well against them, that he's thinking about his shots. We all know where that leads. 3. All the Mavs players were hot. That's not gonna happen often. 4. If we just play an average first quarter, we're in the game. We sucked. 5. Manu kept us in the game. Dallas has no one who can control him. 5. Think Pop should have tried Darius on Devin Harris. He's just as fast and has some bulk to rough him up. Plus, he's been hitting the three pretty well. Hey, it's just November.

by agutierrez on Nov 16, 2007 2:27 PM CST   0 recs

Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?
I think the Duncan retirement theory is completely out of left field. He just signed the extension. I think he retires when his contract is up, in 2012.

by Aaronstampler on Nov 16, 2007 3:29 PM CST   0 recs

Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?
I think Fin has been a relative disaster his whole career here.  Shooting like crap has been his normal mode for the vast majority of the games.  I think if we bench him he'll get even worse, so its a catch 22.  I'm not sold on Udoka either, but I am sold that Fin is consistently not doing well.  Bonner?  Yeah, maybe, why not?  He would help with rebounding which we suck at and he would be a better outside shooter.  And he does play like he gives a crap.  On a sidenote, last night it was painfully clear that he will never be the Horry replacement.  There was a shot of him on the bench having just got pulled for going over someone's back or something.  Pop was consoling him in a way that seemed awkward.  I think Bonner actually cares too much.  Horry doesn't care about failing and that's what makes him a killer.

Bonner got rough a little with Dirk which was good.  It was much but enough for Dirk to start crying to the refs.  That's the kind of play that we need to aspire towards.  I agree with Stampler on that.  And I do think Darius should have gotten more minutes.  He is exactly what we needed last night.  Fearless and over aggressive.  I know Tony had 8 assists but I think that was the worst game I've seen him play since Pop stopped tearing his head off 5x a game.  Something must have been up.  He looked full of ennui and other French words.

by Jones on Nov 16, 2007 4:25 PM CST   0 recs

Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?
Who would've thought Finley read this blog and shot well tonight just to piss us off?

by Hipuks on Nov 16, 2007 10:01 PM CST   0 recs

Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?
Heh. Yeah. It's so sad that I won't be able to criticize Findog tonight. Not that he was spectacular, but I wasn't expecting much from him on D, anyway.

I think the reports on Duncan's decline might've been greatly exaggerated. He had a pretty good night, despite struggling in the second half. And that final block was sweet, even though the game was practically over, and he'd screwed it up with those FTs before that.

I simply have to mention Manu. Have you guys noticed how the team changes when he's on the court? It's incredible - I don't think he's ever made such a consistent impact on the team like these days. You can always tell when he's playing - be it a great pass, or a turnover, or a steal and a foul, he's always in the thick of it. Am I the only one seeing that? Is it my imagination, because I'm focusing on him?

I'm aware of the 6 TOs, even though a couple of those were simply bad luck, like when he stole the ball and two Rockets were just there, forcing him to dribble behind his back and getting it back. (BTW, he only had 1 steal? How? I watched the game, and I remember at least two other opportunities when he slapped the ball right out of Yao's big grubby fingers. How're those not steals? We get the possession back, hence steal. Right? Wrong.) And yes, I know he shot 5-14. He didn't have a good shooting night, but he fought through it, like Parker in the 4th.

But those 6 FTs? All typical Ginobili fouls, with him tricking the opponent into jumping over him, or knocking him before he got the shot out. That's basketball IQ. And for the second night in a row he had 9 rebounds, outrebounding both Elson and Oberto together again. Aaand he had 7 assists once more. If butterfinger Bonner and jellyhands Cisco could grab the effing ball, he'd have three or four more. I'm seeing him make sweet passes in every possession, even some I didn't remember in his repertoire. Didn't you guys love it when he acted as the de facto PG with Vaughn on the floor?

I'm in love. Many, move over.

Anyway, despite what Aaronstampler says, I like to watch Ginobili keeping a consistent playoff level for as long as he can. I'm not thinking of the future (that's Pop's job) or whether he can stay fresh come the playoffs - I just want to enjoy him as a fan. That's me being selfish.

About those TOs - Scola taking charges just about killed me. He had a monster game against us, his coming out party so to speak, and I'm happy for him. He's obviously a good player, and I felt trading him to a division rival was a huge mistake from our FO. Today he showed his potential, and it was worth the scare, if only because I'll have fun reading the incoming SpursTalk trollfest.

Okay. I'm going to stop now, and go to bed. Looking forward to Aaron's review, as always. Next, the Hawks.

by LatinD on Nov 16, 2007 11:10 PM CST   0 recs

Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?
Hey read this

http://mundoalbiceleste.blogspot.com/2007/11/nba-news-scola-on-fire-but-spurs-win.html

VAMOS ARGENTINA!!! Please visit my blog @ http://mundoalbiceleste.blogspot.com

by sivanjohn on Nov 16, 2007 11:23 PM CST   0 recs

Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?
While Finley at least showed a pulse tonight, I don't see how he's anything resembling a season-long answer.  

When do we start thinking about trades, free agents, etc.?  I'm totally unfamiliar with the cap situation.  Can anyone enlighten me?

And the reviews have been top-notch this season--excellent for those of us with no TV, only pirate internet streams.

by wangalusa on Nov 16, 2007 11:31 PM CST   0 recs

Barry starter
When Manu went bench, Barry starter. Then he injury, so Finley starter (march 2007...). I vote for Brent.

by guille on Nov 17, 2007 5:01 AM CST   0 recs

Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?
As a Mavs fan, I got nothing but love for the Spurs.  They are the only other team in the league that I respect.  The only opponent that is a worthy foe, if you will.  I mean, come on, how can anyone not enjoy watching these two teams slug it out?  The series in '06 had to be one of the most epic playoff series ever.  While Thursday night's game wasn't the best on the Spurs part, no way in hell will it be that way next time we play.  And honestly, until the last couple minutes, I was legitimately worried about a comeback.  All it would have taken is two stops and a 3 or two, and bam, it would have been anyone's game (And the Spurs can usually be counted on to make a stop or two).  The Spurs are too dangerous to be "pleased" with a 10 point lead.

Can we agree to direct all irrational hatred at the Suns?  Please?  THEY are unworthy of the attention and respect they get.  Screw the Suns.  

by alex on Nov 17, 2007 1:15 PM CST   0 recs

Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?
Can we agree to direct all irrational hatred at the Suns?  Please?  THEY are unworthy of the attention and respect they get.  Screw the Suns.

Hells yeah.  That's totally in line with all that is PtR.  Toss in an anti-Ray-Allen quip, and Matthew would be at your doorstep tomorrow with a marriage proposal.

chaos... panic... pandemonium... my work here is done.

by rick2g on Nov 17, 2007 10:41 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Why Don't We Hate These Guys?
yeah.....fuck ray allen

by bones on Nov 18, 2007 7:17 PM CST   0 recs

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